Comments on: Exodus 18:1-27 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/ reading the bible as a community Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:55:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jane http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3493 Jane Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:43:06 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3493 this whole business of wisdom about distinguishing between what is busyness in church and how we can allow it to distract us from our relationship with God and being his people really strikes home for me too. It is something God is continuing to challenge me over and smeithing I wrestle with continually. It is hard also to communicate this in traditional church settings without being seen as lacking in commitment to church (and by implication god). However, it took Jethro to make Moses aware and we do need to recognise that many people effectively have been unable to hear their equivalent of Jethro because their idea of being God\'s people is expressed through the commitment to meetings etc. I guess we show them by example, which is what Moses did to his men once he acted on Jethro\'s advice. not easy!! this whole business of wisdom about distinguishing between what is busyness in church and how we can allow it to distract us from our relationship with God and being his people really strikes home for me too. It is something God is continuing to challenge me over and smeithing I wrestle with continually. It is hard also to communicate this in traditional church settings without being seen as lacking in commitment to church (and by implication god). However, it took Jethro to make Moses aware and we do need to recognise that many people effectively have been unable to hear their equivalent of Jethro because their idea of being God\’s people is expressed through the commitment to meetings etc. I guess we show them by example, which is what Moses did to his men once he acted on Jethro\’s advice. not easy!!

]]> By: Ant http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3487 Ant Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:50:17 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3487 Yes Phil I am the strange guy from Leicester. Hopefully we will catch up sometime soonish...or get in touch via Facebook or email. (Richard has our email) As for the meetings thing there seem to be people in our church who love being busy and can\'t understand why you won\'t commit every hour to the church. It is one of the big dangers in our church I feel. Jethro gave such excellent advice...we need to spread the load. Church leaders beware!!! Yes Phil I am the strange guy from Leicester. Hopefully we will catch up sometime soonish…or get in touch via Facebook or email. (Richard has our email)
As for the meetings thing there seem to be people in our church who love being busy and can\’t understand why you won\’t commit every hour to the church. It is one of the big dangers in our church I feel.
Jethro gave such excellent advice…we need to spread the load. Church leaders beware!!!

]]> By: Karen http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3485 Karen Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:43:29 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3485 What strikes me is how easily Moses gave up those things that were too much for him. How often do we cling onto those things we do... even if we know we are doing too much? And how many excuses do we use to keep hold of them? It takes courage to stop doing things and ask God to show you what he really wants you to be doing... not what you think you ought to be doing. It\'s only when you stop and listen that God really speaks and his will is more discernable... and how much fresher you feel.O What strikes me is how easily Moses gave up those things that were too much for him. How often do we cling onto those things we do… even if we know we are doing too much? And how many excuses do we use to keep hold of them? It takes courage to stop doing things and ask God to show you what he really wants you to be doing… not what you think you ought to be doing. It\’s only when you stop and listen that God really speaks and his will is more discernable… and how much fresher you feel.O

]]> By: linda jones http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3483 linda jones Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:05:42 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3483 just back from general synod and my laptop and see that only part of my thoughts got through via my MDA! what I was trying to reflect on was that it costs to travel with others - it is not just a case of getting someone to hold MY arms up but travelling together with one another and this really seems to be reflected in what everyone has said since -so Susanna can I add my prayers too! praise the Lord that he calls us into a trinitarian relationship to be walking together holding one another. just back from general synod and my laptop and see that only part of my thoughts got through via my MDA!
what I was trying to reflect on was that it costs to travel with others – it is not just a case of getting someone to hold MY arms up but travelling together with one another and this really seems to be reflected in what everyone has said since -so Susanna can I add my prayers too! praise the Lord that he calls us into a trinitarian relationship to be walking together holding one another.

]]> By: phil green http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3481 phil green Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:15:27 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3481 Susanna Can I just say thank you for having the courage to take the plunge and sharing your dilemma with us here. It sounds like a really difficult time you are having. It would appear that the most we are able to do at the moment is offer our prayer support, so that God can help you both with with the legal/practical stuff, which is difficult enough, and with the emotional stuff, which is probably harder. Or maybe there maybe somebody here who can point you in the right direction for more practical help. Either way you can be assured of our support. Ant Sorry I didn't get a chance to speak to you on Saturday. It sounds as though we have got a fair bit in common! You aren't the guy who was up from Leicester are you, if you were, we did chat briefly over coffee but that was about it. "I feel this shows a trap it is too easy to fall into and that is the trap of doing too much stuff for church. Before you know it every evening is taken up doing things like meetings…and all they often do is to distract you from God. Before you know it you are worn out and have no time left to relax either with your family or with God…both of which are vital." This is so true. I am convinced that we need to do much less..far better! Not only do we not have time to spend with our family and with God, we do not have the time to spend forming, building, developing and maintaining friendships and relational stuff with our non-Christian friends and contacts, which is surely the foundational bedrock upon which effective mission is both founded and built. Mission cannot be done effectively in a vaccuum. The problem is once we say this stuff out loud, the more meeting-fuelled adrenalin junkies (sorry..couldn't resist!) look at us as though we are are barmy and deluded (they may be right..maybe we are!) and then ignore us, open their diaries and book in the next set of largely unnecessary meetings!...that's when the sojourner feeling is felt at its most strongest! We need to have the wisom and the courage to distinguish between those "church" meetings that enable things to happen (and attend them) and those meetings which prevent other, more effective things from happening (and avoid them). Not easy to do but necessary I feel. Sorry folks..rant over!! Susanna

Can I just say thank you for having the courage to take the plunge and sharing your dilemma with us here. It sounds like a really difficult time you are having. It would appear that the most we are able to do at the moment is offer our prayer support, so that God can help you both with with the legal/practical stuff, which is difficult enough, and with the emotional stuff, which is probably harder. Or maybe there maybe somebody here who can point you in the right direction for more practical help. Either way you can be assured of our support.

Ant

Sorry I didn’t get a chance to speak to you on Saturday. It sounds as though we have got a fair bit in common! You aren’t the guy who was up from Leicester are you, if you were, we did chat briefly over coffee but that was about it.

“I feel this shows a trap it is too easy to fall into and that is the trap of doing too much stuff for church. Before you know it every evening is taken up doing things like meetings…and all they often do is to distract you from God. Before you know it you are worn out and have no time left to relax either with your family or with God…both of which are vital.”

This is so true. I am convinced that we need to do much less..far better! Not only do we not have time to spend with our family and with God, we do not have the time to spend forming, building, developing and maintaining friendships and relational stuff with our non-Christian friends and contacts, which is surely the foundational bedrock upon which effective mission is both founded and built. Mission cannot be done effectively in a vaccuum. The problem is once we say this stuff out loud, the more meeting-fuelled adrenalin junkies (sorry..couldn’t resist!) look at us as though we are are barmy and deluded (they may be right..maybe we are!) and then ignore us, open their diaries and book in the next set of largely unnecessary meetings!…that’s when the sojourner feeling is felt at its most strongest!

We need to have the wisom and the courage to distinguish between those “church” meetings that enable things to happen (and attend them) and those meetings which prevent other, more effective things from happening (and avoid them). Not easy to do but necessary I feel.

Sorry folks..rant over!!

]]> By: Dot Gosling http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3479 Dot Gosling Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:02:22 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3479 I have been thinking about the \'judge\' bit quite a bit recently as something I do has required me to be almost judge and jury - and I actually said to one of the \'parties\' that i need to have the wisdom of Solomon - and I don\'t feel I have that. However I have been able to have conversations with people without giving the whole story to help me with the issue. None of them are followers of Jesus, or any other faith for that matter. They are holding my arms up, as I have no other way of keeping them up. Sometimes walking away for a while is what helps us gain the critical distance from things, to help us keep our emotions in a healthy balance. I find that difficult as I am a \'feeling\' person and so always go into everything headlong as well as believing everyone!! I have learnt over the years so am not as bad as I used to be. However when it comes to dealing with feelings and hurts - which is what I am having to deal with in the scenario above - I have given myself space and time to get my head clear, time for me to check things out with people who know more than me, and time to reflect. I know I can\'t do this on my own! Susanna - peace and strength be with you, there are a lot of folk who can be holding your arms up, as well as God being there - even if that is not a feeling you are experiencing at the moment!! I have been thinking about the \’judge\’ bit quite a bit recently as something I do has required me to be almost judge and jury – and I actually said to one of the \’parties\’ that i need to have the wisdom of Solomon – and I don\’t feel I have that. However I have been able to have conversations with people without giving the whole story to help me with the issue. None of them are followers of Jesus, or any other faith for that matter. They are holding my arms up, as I have no other way of keeping them up.

Sometimes walking away for a while is what helps us gain the critical distance from things, to help us keep our emotions in a healthy balance. I find that difficult as I am a \’feeling\’ person and so always go into everything headlong as well as believing everyone!! I have learnt over the years so am not as bad as I used to be.

However when it comes to dealing with feelings and hurts – which is what I am having to deal with in the scenario above – I have given myself space and time to get my head clear, time for me to check things out with people who know more than me, and time to reflect. I know I can\’t do this on my own!

Susanna – peace and strength be with you, there are a lot of folk who can be holding your arms up, as well as God being there – even if that is not a feeling you are experiencing at the moment!!

]]> By: Ant&Karen http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3477 Ant&Karen Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:37:04 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3477 Susanna, you have our prayer support. May God grant you His peace about all of this and may you find the help you need...in the meantime have our support and our prayers. You are not alone! Susanna, you have our prayer support. May God grant you His peace about all of this and may you find the help you need…in the meantime have our support and our prayers. You are not alone!

]]> By: Steve http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3475 Steve Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:11:52 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3475 I also love the way Moses father-in-law, as a pagan priest, gives wise and direct Godly advice. One significant moment in my spiritual journey a few years ago happen on an NHS management course. I think too often we can look for guidance in religious places when when, seeing as God isn't stuck in a religious box, he very often uses people and places within the 'world' to speak and guide us. Susanna, will pray for those God-given people 'religious' or 'wordly' to be around and support you and guide you in the battle. I also love the way Moses father-in-law, as a pagan priest, gives wise and direct Godly advice. One significant moment in my spiritual journey a few years ago happen on an NHS management course. I think too often we can look for guidance in religious places when when, seeing as God isn’t stuck in a religious box, he very often uses people and places within the ‘world’ to speak and guide us. Susanna, will pray for those God-given people ‘religious’ or ‘wordly’ to be around and support you and guide you in the battle.

]]> By: richard http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3473 richard Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:08:51 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3473 really pray that you do sense your arms being supported and the battle being won Susanna really pray that you do sense your arms being supported and the battle being won Susanna

]]> By: Susanna http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/comment-page-1/#comment-3471 Susanna Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:31:39 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2009/02/12/exodus-181-27/#comment-3471 I\'m sitting here at my laptop wondering whether to share, feeling slightly afraid, but aware there\'s a battle going on in my life at the moment and maybe I need to ask for some ppl to help hold my arms up... “Because the people come to me with questions about God. When something comes up, they come to me. I judge between a man and his neighbor and teach them God’s laws and instructions.” I\'ve recently split up with my fiance/partner. I\'ve been treated very badly and have been left with a lot of debt. She\'s refusing to sort out our financial situation. I feel like the options I have left are walk away and pay it all myself (which I can\'t really afford to do) or take her to court (for which I\'m seeking legal advice, but the majority of the debt is in my name). I don\'t want to do either! Of course it\'s more complicated than this, but it there in my head all the time. I still love her and so that doesn\'t make this any easier. I wish I had a Moses (or one of his "competent men—men who fear God, men of integrity, men who are incorruptible") to judge my case. I\’m sitting here at my laptop wondering whether to share, feeling slightly afraid, but aware there\’s a battle going on in my life at the moment and maybe I need to ask for some ppl to help hold my arms up…

“Because the people come to me with questions about God. When something comes up, they come to me. I judge between a man and his neighbor and teach them God’s laws and instructions.”

I\’ve recently split up with my fiance/partner. I\’ve been treated very badly and have been left with a lot of debt. She\’s refusing to sort out our financial situation. I feel like the options I have left are walk away and pay it all myself (which I can\’t really afford to do) or take her to court (for which I\’m seeking legal advice, but the majority of the debt is in my name). I don\’t want to do either!

Of course it\’s more complicated than this, but it there in my head all the time. I still love her and so that doesn\’t make this any easier.

I wish I had a Moses (or one of his “competent men—men who fear God, men of integrity, men who are incorruptible”) to judge my case.

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