Comments on: Matthew 2:1-12 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/ reading the bible as a community Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:22:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mary http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-36 Mary Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:29:16 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-36 The Nativity play idea with the donkey and all is supposedly the product of St Francis of Assisi in his attempt at trying to make the bible live for those he was preaching to in medieval Italy. If true, it has quite a long history as a European story of the nativity even if not quite bibical. And yes, if you go to Bethlehem you will find three versions of the shepherds' fields and the caves that they lived in out there, as well as the supposed cave that was the stable of the nativity. But it is difficult to see it as it was then - if that (or the cave next door) was the place - because there is a shrine and church built on top and around it. If you get the chance to go to the Holy Land please go - it will challenge you but give you a new understanding of the bible and your faith. Wonderful place. The Nativity play idea with the donkey and all is supposedly the product of St Francis of Assisi in his attempt at trying to make the bible live for those he was preaching to in medieval Italy. If true, it has quite a long history as a European story of the nativity even if not quite bibical. And yes, if you go to Bethlehem you will find three versions of the shepherds’ fields and the caves that they lived in out there, as well as the supposed cave that was the stable of the nativity. But it is difficult to see it as it was then – if that (or the cave next door) was the place – because there is a shrine and church built on top and around it.
If you get the chance to go to the Holy Land please go – it will challenge you but give you a new understanding of the bible and your faith. Wonderful place.

]]> By: Pam http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-35 Pam Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:15:58 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-35 Erm why did I get a smiley when I typed eight as a figure? Erm why did I get a smiley when I typed eight as a figure?

]]> By: Pam http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-34 Pam Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:15:09 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-34 Steve and Josh - I hope you check back at this page coz I want to say how much I loved your comments and agree with them. My little girl is such an avid Christian (at age 8) and she would probably love to read this blog herself as she's always wanting to discuss God/Jesus/the Bible (puts ME to shame). This is going to be a LOVELY angle to discuss with her actually! (Don't worry I'm good at getting it all into 8 year old speak and she really DOES understand the 'giving yourself and your life to Jesus' bit and says, at such a tender age that that's exactly what SHE wants to do. Mmmmnnnnn...... lets see what happens at 13......)! Steve and Josh – I hope you check back at this page coz I want to say how much I loved your comments and agree with them. My little girl is such an avid Christian (at age 8) and she would probably love to read this blog herself as she’s always wanting to discuss God/Jesus/the Bible (puts ME to shame). This is going to be a LOVELY angle to discuss with her actually! (Don’t worry I’m good at getting it all into 8 year old speak and she really DOES understand the ‘giving yourself and your life to Jesus’ bit and says, at such a tender age that that’s exactly what SHE wants to do. Mmmmnnnnn…… lets see what happens at 13……)!

]]> By: Josh http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-33 Josh Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:50:38 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-33 Typical that it was the presents that seemed to jump out at me in this passage! Although obviously the wise men wouldn't have had anyone to give the presents to before they'd located Jesus, i think theres's a nice parallel i can draw for myself at christmas. That searching for where Jesus is and how he fits into my life at this time of year should be my priority- then maybe exchanging presents and gifts can happen. Thats my attempt at giving consumerist Christmas a chance anyway, hah! Typical that it was the presents that seemed to jump out at me in this passage! Although obviously the wise men wouldn’t have had anyone to give the presents to before they’d located Jesus, i think theres’s a nice parallel i can draw for myself at christmas. That searching for where Jesus is and how he fits into my life at this time of year should be my priority- then maybe exchanging presents and gifts can happen. Thats my attempt at giving consumerist Christmas a chance anyway, hah!

]]> By: Steve http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Steve Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:03:30 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-32 The thing that has struck me again with this passage is that sacrifice began right from the outset of Jesus birth. As soon as that screaming child was born it demanded sacrifice - not only God's sacrifice of sending his son, but also the the sacrifice of those who came into contact with him...that is if they really wanted to encounter him intimately. It involved sacrifice from Mary and Joseph - not just bringing him Jesus up, but also having to flee as illegal immigrants as a result of Herod's action in this passage. The shepherd's and wise men's encounter caused them to leave what they were doing and bow in addoration to the King (sound's like the same call as the disciples to me!). Following on from the presents discussion....and I know this might be a little contentious(!).........might it be we give lots of presents to each other coz this doesn't really demand the same sacrifice as Jesus is looking for and is an easy option...and might it be that the challenge at Christmas for us is to come more sacrificially to God (not necessarily financially) and not get as hung up, or allow our children to get as hung up, on the presents. Pam, I wonder if the question posed by your daughter yesterday was a reflection of the fact that it really doesn't make sense to give each other presents (out of the mouths of babes?) See.....I said it was a little contencious!!!! The thing that has struck me again with this passage is that sacrifice began right from the outset of Jesus birth. As soon as that screaming child was born it demanded sacrifice – not only God’s sacrifice of sending his son, but also the the sacrifice of those who came into contact with him…that is if they really wanted to encounter him intimately.

It involved sacrifice from Mary and Joseph – not just bringing him Jesus up, but also having to flee as illegal immigrants as a result of Herod’s action in this passage.
The shepherd’s and wise men’s encounter caused them to leave what they were doing and bow in addoration to the King (sound’s like the same call as the disciples to me!).

Following on from the presents discussion….and I know this might be a little contentious(!)………might it be we give lots of presents to each other coz this doesn’t really demand the same sacrifice as Jesus is looking for and is an easy option…and might it be that the challenge at Christmas for us is to come more sacrificially to God (not necessarily financially) and not get as hung up, or allow our children to get as hung up, on the presents.

Pam, I wonder if the question posed by your daughter yesterday was a reflection of the fact that it really doesn’t make sense to give each other presents (out of the mouths of babes?)

See…..I said it was a little contencious!!!!

]]> By: Pam http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Pam Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:28:40 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-31 Richard - I saw an amazing documentary once that traced the nativity to the actual place it happened. The "Stable" and the "Manger" were NOTHING like either. The Stable, apparently, would have been a kind of cave-like building amongst many others, where animals were kept over winter and the manger - a kind of ditch running through the middle of it where they chucked the animal food (if my memory serves me correctly). It would have been very noisy, very smelly, and small. REALLY brought the story home to me. If they repeat this and I spot it in the telly guide..... I'll let you all know. Richard – I saw an amazing documentary once that traced the nativity to the actual place it happened. The “Stable” and the “Manger” were NOTHING like either. The Stable, apparently, would have been a kind of cave-like building amongst many others, where animals were kept over winter and the manger – a kind of ditch running through the middle of it where they chucked the animal food (if my memory serves me correctly). It would have been very noisy, very smelly, and small. REALLY brought the story home to me. If they repeat this and I spot it in the telly guide….. I’ll let you all know.

]]> By: Pam http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-30 Pam Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:22:33 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-30 Thanks Frances - I will - at the next opportunity! Thanks Frances – I will – at the next opportunity!

]]> By: richard http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-29 richard Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:19:41 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-29 Jen - The worst part is most nativity plays get it 75% wrong. There's no innkeeper, no inn, no stable and no donkey in the bible accounts... We need to organise a demonstartion with placards against these 'dodgy' events - or alternatively I'll sit adoringly at my kids school nativity play on Friday and once again pretend that was the way it happenned! Jen – The worst part is most nativity plays get it 75% wrong. There’s no innkeeper, no inn, no stable and no donkey in the bible accounts… We need to organise a demonstartion with placards against these ‘dodgy’ events – or alternatively I’ll sit adoringly at my kids school nativity play on Friday and once again pretend that was the way it happenned!

]]> By: Frances http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Frances Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:24:38 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-28 Pam, As I understand it, the significance of the 3 gifts is: Gold for a king, Frankincense for a priest, and Myrrh for anointing a body for burial. Pretty prescient (there's a word from the thesaurus!) of them, eh?! And they weren't even Jewish or God-worshippers as far as we know! Now you can have another conversation with your daughter - let us know what she says! Pam, As I understand it, the significance of the 3 gifts is: Gold for a king, Frankincense for a priest, and Myrrh for anointing a body for burial. Pretty prescient (there’s a word from the thesaurus!) of them, eh?! And they weren’t even Jewish or God-worshippers as far as we know!
Now you can have another conversation with your daughter – let us know what she says!

]]> By: Pam http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/2006/12/13/matthew-21-12/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Pam Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:00:53 +0000 http://dream.uk.net/wpblog/?p=8#comment-27 My 8 year old asked yesterday "WHY do we give presents at Christmas Mum?". On the way home from school we talked about the fact that it's Jesus' birthday and, since he isn't physically on earth but lives inside of us - we are giving gifts to each other - which symbolises that and also symbolises love. Ellie chirped up "Yeah, but wasn't it also because the 3 wise men gave presents?". "Umm - yeah - that too" I said, and added ... "but that day, God gave us the greatest gift of all didn't he?" "Is that love mum?". "Mmmnnnn.... and, he gave us himself, in earthly form - he gave us Jesus, and God IS love .... and he gave us forgiveness and salvation and....." To be honest guys, I don't actually KNOW but these are my guesses and it was nice to talk with her about it. Would also have been nice if I could remember the special significance of the wise mens' gifts ..... heard it in a sermon once.... way back..... anyone? My 8 year old asked yesterday “WHY do we give presents at Christmas Mum?”. On the way home from school we talked about the fact that it’s Jesus’ birthday and, since he isn’t physically on earth but lives inside of us – we are giving gifts to each other – which symbolises that and also symbolises love. Ellie chirped up “Yeah, but wasn’t it also because the 3 wise men gave presents?”. “Umm – yeah – that too” I said, and added … “but that day, God gave us the greatest gift of all didn’t he?”
“Is that love mum?”.
“Mmmnnnn…. and, he gave us himself, in earthly form – he gave us Jesus, and God IS love …. and he gave us forgiveness and salvation and…..”
To be honest guys, I don’t actually KNOW but these are my guesses and it was nice to talk with her about it. Would also have been nice if I could remember the special significance of the wise mens’ gifts ….. heard it in a sermon once…. way back….. anyone?

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